The Death of a Salesman

Are you listening?

Ironic the title of this episode, as you will hear, the audio on my side is not ideal, I did try to clean it up. The key thing is that today's guest Dr Jillian Ney, is crystal clear, and that is what it counts!

Are you listening? I mean really listening?

Social listening is nothing new, the question is should we be looking at it more closely through a sales & marketing lense?

Jillian is a digital anthropologist and the founder of The Social Intelligence Lab (The SI Lab) - a global community for professionals working with social and internet data. She is also the UK’s first “Dr. of Social Media.”  is an advocate of what is more widely known as ‘social listening’ she is on a mission to advance the value of social and internet data more broadly as a source of insight, not just social media. In addition, she promotes the improvement of practices and standards in the analysis of digital conversations, and supports professionals working in this space. She does this through The SI Lab by sharing content, hosting events and providing training. She also supports the growth of the sector via The SI Lab Jobs, and helps people find the right tools and technology through the SI Lab Directory."

In this episode, we cover off :

Jillian sharing her new framework approach :

- Real Time Analysis

- Decision Intelligence

- Insights

Taking an always on approach.

The question is what matters the most.

These are as much data governance discussions.

Breaking the perception of what social media is at a board level.

What can B2B learn from what B2C are doing in this space.

How do you know what behavioural trends to follow.

So much data is, you just need to know, where and how to look.

Attribution.

We cover a lot more too, this is a great listen for anyone who is considering how you might use social listening as part of your go to market.

Connect with Jillian here :(1) Dr Jillian Ney | LinkedIn

The Social Intelligence Lab : Home - The Social Intelligence Lab (thesilab.com)

As always, thank you for listening - (and apologies for my audio sounding like I am under water!)

 

 

 

What is the intent of intent data?

In an online world, what is intent, and, more importantly, what is the data?  Intent is always a hot topic of debate - just because someone visits your website, downloads something or attends an event, does this mean that person is a "hot lead" and ready to buy?

In this episode, I am joined by the brilliant Kerry Cunningham from 6sense.  Kerry has lived in this world before intent data was even a thing. His passion lies on helping sales & marketing functions align better, and his approach is :

 

"I rarely accept things in the business world as they are. I tend to see things as they should be and then get to work figuring stuff out. Over the last 5+ years, my focus for has been on driving the buying groups revolution in B2B, helping organizations transform from outmoded, ineffective lead-based demand gen practices to modern, buying team and opportunity-centric processes that unlock next-level performance.

I also bring a unique combination of academic and real-world expertise in a variety of disciplines, including demand marketing, ABM, marketing operations, sales prospecting, messaging, organizational design and management, cross-cultural organizational design and change management, employee selection and retention, and performance management. "

 

As you will hear in this episode, Kerry does not hold back, so buckle up sales & marketing :

Hear how Kerry describes how, in the past, the best you can be at lead gen, was truly awful.

Why he realised that we were looking at things the wrong way.

What is intent data?

Is it relevant to B2B?

1st Party Data to 3rd Party Data to Anonymous data - why it all matters.

Leads are also a form of intent, but you are looking at them the wrong way.

A prospect vs someone with personal interest.

Why the way sales & marketing are incentivised goes against the best interest of the business.

What buying signals you should be listening for.

It's the combination of signals that hold the key to unlocking all of this.

And much, much more.

Kerry tackles this head-on, with some hard truths, which, if we are honest with ourselves, we could all be doing better.

He also ends with some practical advice you can start doing today with the marketing data you already have access to, just look at it through a different lense.

Follow Kerry on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kerrycunningham/

Learn more about what 6sense can do for you and your business https://6sense.com/

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rev Ops in Professional Services

If you google "what is RevOps" this is what you find, in the round :

"Revenue operations (RevOps) is the strategic integration of sales, marketing and service departments to provide a better end-to-end view to administration and management, while leaving day-to-day processes within the departments. The holistic approach of revenue ops is designed to break down silos between departments."

It is an idea, business unit or function that has been around in SaaS sales for a number of years. Some might argue that is an evolution of sales enablement, sales operations to what we now have today, revenue operations.

There is a narrative playing out on LinkedIn that Professional Service firms, Lawyers and Accountants, should adopt a rev ops mindset and approach to sales, bd & marketing. 

"But we can't even get people to use CRM, let alone think about how we might integrate all of this, under one budget and business unit that doesn't exits" I hear you think.

Well. just because it would seem we can't, does that mean we shouldn't try?

Today's guest, Ron Latz, and I, got into this debate, more broadly, on LinkedIn about sales and selling more broadly, which was started based on a post about rev ops in law firms, hence here we are, debating this further.

Ron is VP for Sales & Customer Success at Mockingbird Marketing. He describes what he and the team do as :

"My goal is to help growth-minded attorneys and law firms drive more qualified consultations and increase retained clients. Most agencies in the legal marketing arena are wrong or misguided, at best, and have brainwashed the industry to believe that vanity metrics like clicks, calls, and 'leads' are the guiding indictators that will put them on the path to success.

At Mockingbird, we show you a very different and much better way. If you want to start accurately measuring your marketing effectiveness, learn how to put systems and processes in place to improve productivity and efficiency, and better serve your clients, come talk with us. Even if we're not aligned to help you reach your goals, I can promise you that you'll look at marketing your practice with a fresh and new perspective. "

 

In this episode we chat through :

Where is the US law firm market around the world of sales and technology?

What is the challenge with adoption?

Does it matter where they are on the growth curve to consider this?

Client expectations are changing.

Are lawyers / accountants even sales people?

What is Rev Ops and is it even relevant to professional services?

What does this mean for BD? Should this be their role?

Professional Services, don't know what they don't about all of this technology, so why should they care?

For those that do have the technology, is it being deployed and used in the way that it was intended?

Do professional services firms need to start thinking like Amazon? or is this just a cliché.

Is the change in mindset just too hard?

What small things can you do today with the technology you already have?

 

If you would like to connect with Ron to learn more about how he and the team can help you with your rev ops strategy, you can find him here on LinkedIn - (5) Ron Latz | LinkedIn 

 

Let us know what you think?

 

Thank you to Ron for his time and insight, and, as ever, thank you for listening. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can you be a ”student” of sales?

Most people aren't "taught" sales at school, university or college. If you are like me, I fell into and lived and died by the sword. My late Father, David, was in software sales back in the day, and that provided the family with a comfortable lifestyle - hence it was the first job I took after university in London, telesales for a property company. We were never taught in the sense of a curriculum, you learned on the job. Some fell by the way side, others succeeded.

I then moved into recruitment, that (in)famous Alec Baldwin scene from Glenngarry Glen Ross was more or less our training manual. 

Put that coffee down.

Yes of course as the world of sales has matured, there are many disciples of different sales processes that are taught to sales teams - SPIN, TAS, BANT and The Challenger Sale. But these are all taught in flight as it were. 

None of this is taught when we are students. And still isn't, not in the main anyway.

Here is what my guest on this episode wants to change, however with a twist that will resonate with the 21st-century student.

Greg Smith is passionate about "self enablement" and supporting those that are at university/college and entering the workforce. His vision is to enable them to begin their sales coaching journey whilst still learning - and then, more importantly, support their sales learning journey throughout their entire career. 

Greg describes himself as "Sales and Marketing professional with over 10 years experience in Business Development and Sales Enablement within the SaaS industry. Successfully created, designed, marketed and sold the worlds first “sales practice field”. Acknowledged as a thought- leader and frequently invited to speak at industry events such as AA-ISP, Sales 3.0 and Sales Enablement Society. Possess the experience and awareness to identify problems and the prowess and tenacity to work through to a solution."

He is currently Product Manager, Digital Platforms at Imparta, which  "is a global leader in performance improvement for customer-facing teams, including sales and account management, customer success, and customer experience. Imparta's 3D Advantage® methodology is based on more than 20 years of research and experience with leading global organisations. It powers a complete, modular, award-winning curriculum that covers the entire customer Buying Cycle from initial need to renewal, and every role from early tenure to Chief Revenue Officer across a wide range of industries."

From here Greg founded Mixdeck - it's like Spotify for sales training! Home | MixDeck 

In this episode, we chat about all that he is doing and his vision of Mixdeck.

Why Greg created Mixdeck?

How it works.

The reaction that he is getting from the education sector.

What are the challenges faced with sales enablement generally.

What opportunity does this present for employers?

I throw him a curveball around the metaverse, because, why not.

and more.

We need to be talking more about this and how we can, dare I say it, make sales a profession, or even, make sales great again - it is a wonderful profession, it serves me well, and continues to do so. I believe many others in sales would agree.

Greg is on a mission to do just this.

To learn about how Mixdeck can support your sales career, sign up here : Home | MixDeck

If you would like to contribute your content to Mixdeck, pro-bono, get in touch with Greg here : (2) Greg Smith | LinkedIn

As ever, thank you for taking the time to listen.

 

 

 

 

 

The Death of (a) Sales (Man) ?

"Death of a Salesman is a 1949 stage play written by American playwright Arthur Miller. The play premiered on Broadway in February 1949, running for 742 performances. It is a two-act tragedy set in 1940s New York told through a montage of memories, dreams, and arguments of the protagonist Willy Loman, a travelling salesman who is disappointed with his life, and appears to be slipping into senility. The play contains a variety of themes, such as the American Dream, the anatomy of truth, and infidelity. It explores the psychological chaos of the protagonist, and the capitalist society's impact on his life. It won the 1949 Pulitzer Prize for Drama and Tony Award for Best Play. It is considered by some critics to be one of the greatest plays of the 20th century" - wikipedia.

I always thought it apt as a title for the podcast, based on the underlying narrative and perception sales has had through the ages. Fast forward to today, in the modern era of sales and varying iterations, roles, and supporting functions in sales, we find ourselves at a tipping point.

What is the role of sales? If we are to believe the research, the stats range from 44% to 72% of buyers would prefer a salesperson free buying process. 

Note the word, would - none of this research is saying this is happening today, it is, if they could not have a salesperson in the buying process, they would prefer it.

Today's guest is none other than the brilliant Brent Adamson. Brent describes himself as "Researcher, author, presenter, and thinker with a passion for “productive disruption.”

He is the Global Head of Research at Ecosystems. Ecosystems is the leading software-as-a-service (SaaS) platform for collaborative customer value management.

Prior to this, Brent forged his career at CEB, now Gartner. He is the co-author of the Challenger Sale & Challenger Customer. 

Brent authored a brilliant piece in HBR titled "Traditional Sales & Marketing are Becoming Obsolete". You can listen to that episode where I chat with Jenna from Smart Technologies about what they have done to ensure it isn't. 

This leads us to this episode.

We could have chatted for hours on this, but we keep it to c. 45mins.

We cover :

What is selling in an ecosystem today and why sales leaders have to start thinking about it.

We take a look back in time to try and understand why we have got to where we are today.

Are we blurring what a sales process is vs what a sales cadence is?

We take a closer look at some of the stats that buyers are saying in that they would prefer a seller-free process.

And what might this mean for both the seller and the buyer?

We consider the statement "Buyer Centric", and ask the question, are we?

We wrap it up where Brent offers some brilliant questions you can ask your clients & prospects as well as start doing something called "Post Sales Discovery".

Brent is a brilliant raconteur and a razor-sharp mind when it comes to all things sales.

Follow Brent on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/brentadamson/

Learn more about Ecosystems https://ecosystems.us/ and even join their Slack group https://ecosystems.us/customer-value-community/ 

The aforementioned HBR article https://hbr.org/2022/02/traditional-b2b-sales-and-marketing-are-becoming-obsolete 

As ever, thank you for tuning in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How to Improvise

Welcome to the 100th Episode of this podcast. And what a guest we have for this one.

I met Neil Mullarkey on a coaching course called "Enrich your Pitch" where Neil took us through how one can use the art of improvisation in a business context.

Let's be honest, things don't always go as we plan and prospects and clients can throw you a curve ball from time to time - the key is how you handle that in real-time. 

Neil's pedigree speaks for itself, just look at his Wikipedia page :

"In the mid-1980s, he teamed up with Mike Myers as 'Mullarkey and Myers'. They would perform sketches based on their shared love of cartoons, B-movies and bad TV. They played around the burgeoning London pub circuit, particularly at the George IV in Chiswick, where they often shared the bill with the young Hugh Grant, then plying his trade in the Jockeys of Norfolk revue. As their fame increased, Mullarkey and Myers toured the UK, ending in a sold-out season at the Edinburgh Festival.

The two appeared as 'The Sound Asleep Club' on TV-am's 'Wide Awake Club', a children's TV show hosted at the time by Tommy Boyd. Mike eventually returned to Toronto, but Mullarkey would briefly join him to revive 'Mullarkey and Myers' in Canada. Later still, he appeared in Myers' début in Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery, as the Customs Officer who freaks Austin out with his Swedish-made penis pump. (He also appeared again in Goldmember and helped Mike Myers with uncredited rewrites of So I Married An Axe Murderer."

That's just the intro.

He has performed with Eddie Izzard, and Dawn French to name but a few comedic greats.

As a founding member of The Comedy Store Players, he is regularly performing on the UK comedy circuit.

In this episode, Neil takes us through his 5 step framework on how to use improvisation skills in a business context. 

That's all you're getting.

Tune in to and put this into practice.

Learn more about how Neil here :

https://neilmullarkey.com/

Linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/neilmullarkey/

Twitter : https://twitter.com/NeilMullarkey

For UK folk and anyone visiting who wants to see improv in action: https://comedystoreplayers.com/

As always, my heartfelt thanks to all of my guests for agreeing to be on this show, and you, my listeners - without which this would be for nothing!

 

 

 

What’s next for BD?

I spent 7 years in out and out sales roles, before making the move into Professional Services Business Development, joining PwC in Jan 2009. This launched my career to where I am today - along this journey, I have met some incredibly talented BD professionals.

In this episode, I am joined by the brilliant Dominic de Mariveles. I met Dominic when I joined Berwin Leighton Paisner as was, now BCLP, in Oct 2011. 

The approach Dominic takes to driving a BD culture in both his teams and the fee earners is a pragmatic yet robust one.

He not only believes but has proved, with a straightforward, no-frills approach to BD, that you can achieve double-digit revenue growth in 5 years.

We discuss :

What is Business Development in a Professional Services capacity?

Where has it got to today?

Why do we believe it is so varied in how it is executed?

Why is Professional Services "sales" so different to Corporate "sales". Or is it?

If we were to start a new BD function today, what would that look like?

The challenges for both small and large firms.

Do we have the right skills for where we need to be in 5 years?

How technology focussed should we be?

Why this has to be led from the top - if not, you will fail.

Be bold and brave.

I always learn something new when I speak to Dominic, and no doubt so will you.

If you believe Dominic can help you and you want to learn more - connect with him on LinkedIn, be sure to mention this podcast: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dominicdemariveles/

 

As ever, my continued thanks to all of my guests, and you, our listeners. 

 

 

 

AI led Coaching

How would you feel about being coached by an AI-powered avatar?

That's precisely the world we now find ourselves in, and this is the topic of this episode.

I chat with Russell Zack, Head of Revenue at www.secondnature.ai, which describes itself as "Scale up your sales coaching with bite-sized,
realistic, AI-driven role plays, immediate
feedback, scoring and an amazing
experience."

Oh, and there is Jenny, or whomever you want.

I was intrigued by how this all worked, and Russell kindly gave up his time to share how it all worked.

We chat all things such as :

The rise of AI in Sales and how the next generation of employees is much more comfortable, if not expecting this enablement. 

Is this different from all the fitness apps where you have a "coach" to train you?

Why it is important to have a robust sales strategy to overlay your sales coaching - whether it is in person, virtual or through an AI coach.

Data, Data and more data.

Real-time learning and feedback - how this helps scale your sales and enablement at pace.

Russell's own experience of being onboarded by Jenny.

This technology gives sales enablement the ability to create different sales scenarios - which is always on. 

How this can remove conscious and unconscious bias, HOWEVER, keep an eye on the base data, you are using.

I put Russell on the spot, and we look into the crystal ball - is there a possibility that you can turn this software into client-facing a role?

I believe this is the start of creating a new market in the world of sales enablement and supporting roles. It is not about replacing people but augmenting them. 

Thank you to Russell for sharing his time and insight; it's a brave new world. 

Follow Russell here - https://www.linkedin.com/in/russellzack/ 

 

 

 

 

 

D is for Data

Let's Party Like it's 1999.

This is when my guest Rick Hawkins started out his career in data science, or as it was called back in the day - BI, Business Intelligence.

Rick very kindly allowed me to interrupt his career break and be a guest on this episode, where we chat all things data. His career speaks for itself, having been on both the sell-side and buy-side of data science, business intelligence, graphing or wrangling. His profile reads :

"Data Leader and Chief Data Officer with vision, drive and extensive experience building transformational data capabilities. Most recently established a global data management capability and bespoke tooling from zero base at a leading bank. Passionate about data-led innovation, actively involved in setting cloud and data strategies at the CxO level and improving data literacy. Previously developed data practices and built cross-industry Data Management tools for several professional services organisations. Active participant in industry-wide consortiums shaping data regulation with the FCA and Bank of England and regular presenter at data conferences, including
FIMA and CDAO"

His most most recent position was Chief Data Officer, Global Risk & Finance at global banking institution.

Whom better to get on and share his views on all things data and Formula 1.

The questions I pose are :

What is data in a business context?

Why is it taking so long to get right? 

We chat about a blog from 2017 about Marketing teams needing a data scientist(s); therefore, I ask, what is a Data Scientist?

How can sales & marketing teams learn from other business units wrangling data?

The ethics and debate of data privacy vs I want you to "know" me - this is a podcast in its own right.

The role of automation and ai vs Humans.

The Future.

Rick is a brilliant raconteur and uses clever analogies to simplify a complex topic - the Sat Nav one is brilliant, and I want salespeople especially to listen to this. And Birthdays.

We end with this question - Will Ferrari and Leclerc win the 2022 championship - and what an answer!

Thank you so much to Rick for giving up his time when he should be taking time off. 

Follow him on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rickarus/

 

Are you becoming obsolete?

Or, to be precise, Brent Adamson believes that "Traditional Sales & Marketing are becoming Obsolete"

Brent was the co-author of the Challenger Sales & Challenger Customer process. He authored an article on HBR with the aforementioned title. This leads us to my wonderful guest, Jenna Pipchuk, Chief Sales Officer & EVP Global Sales at SMART Technologies.

I read Jenna's story about how she and her colleague, Jeff Lowe, Chief Marketing Officer, ripped up the rule and redesigned from the ground up, how their sales & marketing functions worked together.

All of this with the global pandemic looming ahead of them.

Out of this was born the "Unified Commercial Engine" or UCE.

Could this be the new model for B2B sales?

We discuss :

The prevailing narrative of the rise of the millennial buyer and their buying preferences in the digital age.

How do you respond to this changing landscape?

When Jenna and Jeff both sat down at the start of this programme of change, they had no idea where they would end up.

How did they get buy-in from leadership? Clue, they didn't.

What was the process to dismantle their sales & marketing cycle, piece by piece?

How it was rebuilt around their customer's buying journey.

What is the complete customer infinity loop?

What do circles and squares have to do with all of this?

What does the organisational skill set of the future look like?

You don't pass the baton anymore, you are on journey together.

What is the secret sauce of the UCE?

and much, much more, including the results this is now yielding for them 2 years in.

If you are really serious about how you can, not only give your clients and prospects a better buying experience, while at the same equipping your teams for the future, this podcast is for you.

You can follow Jenna on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jpipchuk/

This is the HBR article I reference - https://hbr.org/2022/02/traditional-b2b-sales-and-marketing-are-becoming-obsolete

Thank you to Jenna for giving up her time to share her story with me and more importantly, all of you. 

If you didn't believe it could be done, well, Jenna, Jeff and the team at SMART Technologies have shown us the way.